The Scottish Government

Continuing the Conversation...

Friday, November 30, 2007

The White Paper says: The Scottish Government envisages a national conversation which will consider the entire range of possible changes to the current constitutional settlement for Scotland. The Government would welcome views on how to design the questions, processes, materials and arguments with the conversation to ensure the greatest possible public participation.

This blog is now closed to further comment.

Comments

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• 1. David Robertson - Inverness

  Friday, August 24, 2007 15:19

  In order to fully reflect the opinions of every voter in Scotland it is important, I believe, to have a range of questions covering the full gamut of possibilities, all the way from returning legislative and governance authority to Westminster through to full and complete independence as a constitutional republic outside the EU but within the EEA. Each question should have as full a description as possible of the rationale for, and the potential impact of, each option. This information should be in the form of a printed book to be delivered to every registered voter. The possible questions may be as follows:
  
  1. Return all legislative and governance authority to Westminster and remain under the Crown.
  
  2. Maintain the current devolved powers, whatever they may be at the time of the referendum, and remain under Westminster and the Crown.
  
  3. Negotiate named powers to be devolved from Westminster, identifying which powers would remain reserved to Westminster, and remain under Westminster and the Crown.
  
  4. Negotiate for all legislative and governance authority to be transferred to the Scottish Parliament and Executive. Negotiate entry into the EU Remain under Brussels and the Crown.
  
  5. Negotiate for all legislative and governance authority to be transferred to the Scottish Parliament and Executive. Remain outside the EU and negotiate entry into the EEA. Remain under the Crown.
  
  6. Negotiate for all legislative and governance authority to be transferred to the Scottish Parliament and Executive explicitly as representing the Scottish People in whom all sovereign power is to be recognised as resident. Develop a new Scottish Constitution and Bill of Rights to enable the creation of a Republic of Scotland. Remain outside the EU and negotiate entry into the EEA.
  
  These options could then be chosen by the voters in order of preference and votes tallied on the same basis as the single transferrable vote. The winning option would be the one receiving more than 60% of the votes cast.

• 2. L. Morrison - Islands

  Friday, August 24, 2007 20:15

  1-forget it.
  2-as above.
  3-no
  4-5- no
  6-yes.

• 3. Amber - Angus

  Saturday, August 25, 2007 07:39

  1 - no way
  2-definitely not
  3-no
  4-no
  5-no thanks
  6-absolutely
  
  

• 4. MK - Glasgow

  Saturday, August 25, 2007 17:22

  There is no way that an option to return control to Westminster should be included. Devolution has brought remarkable improvement in addressing Scottish issues quicker and more effectively.
  I would suggest asking
  (1) Work within the Scotland Act for devolved Scotland
  (2) Independence
  The extent to which a government would push the boundaries of the Scotland Act should be determined on a vote by vote basis in Scottish Parliament.
  We could vote on that one every election....another bit of paper - just don't ask people to put a number against it for heaven's sake....

• 5. Paul Sergeant - Kincardineshire

  Sunday, August 26, 2007 21:31

  David Robertson's possible questions are a good basis for this discussion.
  
  1. Return all powers to Westminster.
  I see this as only supported by a small number of loonys. They, and others, say the same about independence. Let them have their vote. Let's see what the support is and not loose it in a transferrable vote system.
  Remember that Westminster does currently have all powers. The Scottish Parliament and Government operate through the Scotland Act. Westminster, and it's majority of English MP's, have the power to change or repeal that Act at any time.
  
  2&3 More Powers for the Scotish Parliament.
  If additional powers are rejected, then that means maintaining the current position. This doesn't need two questions. What is needed is discussion of what extra powers will be proposed. That comes under the heading Extending Devolution.
  
  4,5,6 Independence
  The Scottish Government trusts the Scottish People to discuss this. I trust the current Scottish Government to respect the people's views and negotiate a settlement. I don't want three Independence questions in advance of those negotions, just one question that the negotions shall start.
  
  I have previously written in support of a single simple referendum question on independence negotiations. After discussion, I now advocate three questions.
  

• 6. Bryce Miller - Edinburgh

  Monday, August 27, 2007 11:02

  The first poster is trying to combine some binary issues with some multiple options. We should take our lead from the devolution referendum and split the questions.
  
  Question 1 should concern Holyrood vis-a-vis Westminster only.
  
  Question 1:
  Return to pre devolution arrangements
  Status Quo
  Devolution Max
  Independence
  
  If we really want to address issues such as monarchy and EU/EEA membership at this stage (and I think we don't), then these should be two further and seperate questions.
  
  Question 2:
  EU membership
  EEA membership
  Membership of neither
  
  Question 3:
  Retain the monarchy
  Have an elected head of state
  
  Some of the answers to Q2&3 rely on the result of Question 1, which is why these sort of things should be asked later. We can, however, have any answer to Q2 with Devolution Max, c.f. Greenland.

• 7. Bryce Miller - Edinburgh

  Monday, August 27, 2007 11:26

  Actually, I've just had a thought. The crux of the issues is More Powers? Y/N and Independence? Y/N.
  
  So why not have two ballots with one question each instead of one ballot with three questions?
  
  The first ballot asks if you want the Scottish parliament to have more powers. Yes to agree, No to disagree.
  The second ballot asks if you want Scotland to become a sovereign and Independent country. Yes to agree, No to disagree.
  
  If the second ballot gets 50% or more of the polled vote, then Independence.
  If the second ballot fails to get 50% or more, then the first ballot is inspected for the same.
  
  This has the advantage that there is a straight up/down question on independence (happy SNP) and the same on more powers (crabby, but ought to be happy Unionists). It also means that people don't have to choose between Independence and more powers. They can choose both, and without resorting to numbers or preferences.

• 8. livilion - livingston

  Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:19

  #7. Bryce Miller - Edinburgh
  Monday, August 27, 2007 11:26
  
  I must say at the outset that I agree with #2+#3 up to the point of leaving the EU.
  as we saw on Black Wednesday individual nation states even one as 'powerful' as the UK are no match for predatory market forces.
  We need the EU for our survival.
  Norway is safe because she has hundreds of billions of pounds salted away in her oil fund, a boyant manufacturing sector and a healthy balance of payments, none of which we enjoy either with or without the UK at the moment.
  
  Where we part company is on the double referendum idea.
  What if we get a yes yes result?
  Yes to more powers and yes to independence?
  The No, No campaigners could legitimately argue that the country has voted for devolution max and how could this square with independence?
  
  You'd be mired up to your ears for years.
  
  One poll with the pre-agreed options, most likely devolution max or full self rule.
  
  btw How do we define 'independence' and 'devolution max'?
  
  As the Scotland Act 1998 has provision for ceding reserved matters to Holyrood,
  the question is:
  At what point do these ceded matters, previously reserved to Westminster, constitute de facto independence?
  
  Also, by the terms of the 1998 Act, can Scotland become independent, just so long as she does not actually declare her independence?

• 9. Francis Rossi - Purley

  Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:49

  Support the Status Quo.

• 10. Bryce Miller - Edinburgh

  Tuesday, August 28, 2007 13:34

  #8, livilion - livingston
  Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:19
  
  I think we should remain as part of the EU too. I included these as seperate issues because these sorts of things seem to be important to people, and are an important part of the mechanisms of our constitution. But yes, remaining in the EU would, IMHO, be Scotland's best option for the forseeable future.
  
  On the double referendum, yes, it could be problematic, but the outcome of a referendum and what that outcome means will be written into the bill proposing the referendum. IMHO, a majority for independence cannot be ignored, even if there is a larger majority for Devolution Max, because those voting for Independence will be the majority subset of those voting for Devolution Max; i.e. those voting for Devolution Max and Independence want both, not just Devolution Max. So they're asking for the powers of Devolution Max and the powers of Independence together.
  
  As for defining terms, I take Independence to mean full sovereignty with no legislative competence granted to Westminster. I take Devolution Max to mean autonomy without sovereignty and lacking powers over constitution, nationality & immigration, and defence (the usual package of reserve powers in this situation).

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